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TABLE OF CONTENTS
- CALIPERS, SLIDERS/PIVOTS
- CALIPERS, PISTONS
- BLEEDING
- MASTER CYLINDER
- REAR MASTER CYLINDER PUSHROD PIN
- FLUID CHANGES
- PAD RECOMMENDATIONS
CAMS/CAM CHAINS/CAM CHAIN TENSIONERS
DIFFERENCES
- BETWEEN SABRES AND MAGNAS
- FROM ONE MODEL YEAR TO THE NEXT
FANSTAT (RADIATOR FAN THERMOSTATIC SWITCH)
MANUALS, ERRORS/OMISSIONS/EXCEPTIONS
ALTERNATOR CONNECTOR MELTDOWN
According to Robyn Landers, this is typical of early to mid 1980s Hondas in general. The cause is a somewhat wimpy connector that would probably be OK if it never got dirty or corroded, but it does, with resulting overheating.
Solutions:
- Honda sells an "ACG connector repair kit" for around $15 list. Some list members report this works well, others that the replacement also failed. (2) Replace the connector with crimp-on spade or bullet connectors. Some list members report success, others that this also fails unless the connectors are soldered.
BRAKES
Most procedures are well covered in both the Honda and Clymer manuals. Here are supplementary tips from list members.
The calipers have 2 single pistons; that is, there are 2 pistons that press on the outside pads, whereas the inside pads are held against the caliper body. Therefore, the caliper body is mounted on sliders or pivots to allow side to side movement. The pivot pins and sleeves often have not received proper maintenance and are corroded, sometimes to the point of being frozen. This can result in the inside pads wearing rapidly, and even eating up the (very expensive) rotor ($360 list for a rear one). The pins and sleeves should be cleaned up with a wire brush or emery cloth and lubricated with high temperature silicone grease. If they are badly pitted they should be replaced, as they might eat into the aluminum of the caliper. The protective rubber boots should be inspected for cracks and tears and replaced if damaged. Pivots should be inspected periodically and cleaned and lubricated if necessary.
The Honda shop manual doesn't specify the torque for the caliper bolt (the one that goes through the pivot collar or sleeve).
Solutions:
- In the front on p. 1-6 there is a table of standard torques. The pivot bolt is an 8mm flange bolt, for which the standard torque is 20-30 Nm (14-22 ft-lb).
- Clymer gives the values 30-40 Nm (22-29 ft-lb) except for '87 Magna's, for which the value is 25-30 Nm.
The pistons are likely to be hard to get out, but can be removed without special tools. After detaching the caliper from the bike but before disconnecting the brake line, remove the pads and put a piece of wood 1/2" or 3/4" thick in the caliper, so the pistons won't come all the way out. Using the brake lever, pump both pistons out until they are stopped by the wood. Chances are you can then pull them both out. (Don't use pliers or anything that could burr or distort the pistons.) If necessary, put in a thinner piece of wood and repeat, or, if one is stubborn and one loose, block just the loose one till the stuck one comes out. Remove the seals and clean any crud out of the inside of the caliper using a small wire brush, steel wool, fine emery cloth, etc. and brake fluid, then wash with hot soapy water, rinse, and dry thoroughly with a hair dryer or compressed air. Unless you really know what you're doing, you probably shouldn't use a hone. The caliper body is aluminum & it would be too easy to overdo it. If you do use a hone, be very careful to remove only the crud, not any metal. Be sure to get any crud out of the seal grooves. (You can make a little scraper out of something like brazing rod for this.) Clean up the pistons with hot soapy water or brake fluid and a brush or nylon dish scrubber or the like. Don't use coarse abrasives on stubborn deposits or superficial corrosion; use crocus cloth or very fine wet-or-dry paper such as 1000 grit with water or brake fluid. The pistons are hard chromed and polished, and if there is deterioration of the surface that cannot be readily polished out, they should be replaced. Lightly lubricate the new seals and the pistons with silicone brake grease and reassemble.
After replacing the calipers, bleed the system until clean fluid with no air comes out. If done as described in the manual, you may need to also bleed at the joints of the tee on the front, and you may have to crack the banjo bolt on the master cylinder as well. Drape old towels all over to catch spilled fluid. A MityVac vacuum brake bleeder is nicer, available at auto supply stores or from
While you're doing the calipers consider installing a master cylinder kit. If the bore of the master cylinder is badly pitted, replace the master cylinder. If it is only lightly pitted or glazed, hone the bore with a brake hone lubricated with brake fluid. Flush thoroughly with brake fluid, or wash with hot soapy water, rinse, and dry thoroughly. Make sure to get any crud out of the hole in the bottom of the reservoir. Reassemble. Prime by partially filling the reservoir and pumping the lever with a finger over the banjo bolt hole until mostly bubble-free fluid comes out around your finger. Reconnect the lines and bleed at the calipers. Turn the handlebars lock to lock and tap the master cylinder with a rubber mallet to free up any last stubborn bubbles, then bleed again to remove them. In especially stubborn cases, you might have to take the master cylinder off the handlebar and hold it vertically and rap it. If all the air is out of the system and the lever still feels mushy or moves slowly under pressure, the master cylinder needs to be repaired or placed.
REAR MASTER CYLINDER PUSHROD PIN
This can be a bitch to get out. Try depressing the brake pedal as far as it will go. This positions the pin into a spot where there is a little more room. The lower you can press the pedal the better. The pin will hit the exhaust collector just before it clears the spline from the brake pedal. You may be able to remove it by pushing the pin up towards the top of the collector and working it out. An easier method is to loosen the front nut of the two nuts by the push rod bracket that accepts the brake pedal pin and unscrewing the rod from the bracket.
Brake (and clutch) fluid should be changed periodically, since it is very hygroscopic and inevitably absorbs water, which contributes to corrosion in the system. Intervals? Yearly, at least in moist climates; every 2 years may be OK in dry areas. DOT 4 fluid is required. It has higher wet and dry boiling points than DOT 3, which is also glycol based. DOT 5 is silicone based and is not compatible with the systems on Sabres and Magna's.
Honda OEM and EBC greens are given favorable reports. EBC blacks are less well liked, being rated by two list members as OK but inferior to OEM. No reports on SBS or other brands.
CAMS/CAM CHAINS/CAM CHAIN TENSIONERS
Early Honda V4s tend to have problems with the valve train:
- pitted and scored cam lobes and eroded follower pads,
- failure of the cam chain tensioners, and
- stretched cam chains.
We recommend that you verify the oil pressure after doing an oil mod, since a few instances of low oil pressure after a mod are reported.
Why not just tee off of the oil pressure switch?
Other list members have made pressure measurements at this engine point and have concluded that the pressure and volume is not sufficient to solve the oiling problem.
CAM CHAINS AND CAM CHAIN TENSIONERS, REPLACING
It is not necessary to remove the cams for this, nor is it necessary to remove the engine from the frame. Changing cam chains is a bitch unless you use master link type chains, because you have to tear the engine down to the crank, and the engine/tranny of a V65 weighs around 200 lb.
CARBURETORS
The following description of CV (constant velocity or constant vacuum) carbs is based on an '85 V65 Magna but should apply pretty closely to other models.
In these carbs there are two fuel systems for controlling the fuel/air mixture at low and high engine speeds. The low speed system consists of the starter jet, the slow jet, the air jet, and the pilot screw. In the carb throat on the airbox side of the throttle butterfly is the opening of the air jet. This feeds air into the low speed system to help atomize the fuel as it exits the jet openings. These are located in the throat just under the edge of the butterfly in the fully closed position. The one just at the edge of the butterfly is the bypass hole and is the opening of the starter jet. The other 3, located slightly on the engine side, are for the slow jet and the enrichener circuit ("choke").
The pilot screw controls the flow of air from the air jet and is used to adjust the idle mixture. At idle, a tiny amount of air passes around the butterfly and draws fuel from the bypass hole. At modest butterfly openings, up to 1/4 throttle or so, the incoming air draws more fuel from the low speed system, with the slow jet providing a larger proportion of the fuel as the throttle is opened.
As the throttle is opened further and engine speed increases, the high speed system comes on line. This consists of the main jet, the vacuum piston or slide, and the jet needle, which is held in the slide with the pointed end in the main jet. When the slide is all the way down, the fat part of the needle mostly closes off the flow of fuel from the main jet. The slide doesn't quite completely occlude the carb throat, allowing a small opening for the mix to flow through at low throttle.
As the throttle is opened, the slide at first is held down by its spring. As engine speed increases, the velocity of the flow of air under the slide and across the air lift hole increases, creating an increasing vacuum in the space above the diaphragm. The amount of vacuum controls the height of the slide, which controls the position of the needle and thus the amount of fuel entering the mix from the main jet. When engine speed is high enough the slide is lifted all the way up and the flow of both air and fuel are at maximum. Thus, above about 1/4 throttle it is the slide that controls delivery of the mix to the engine; the butterfly controls it only indirectly. At WOT the low speed system is still delivering fuel, but its contribution becomes proportionally smaller as speed increases. (Shoemark P., Motorcycle Carburettor Manual, Haynes Publishing Group, Newbury Park, CA, 1981; ISBN 0-85696-603-7)
Neither the Clymer nor Honda manual goes into enough detail about getting the carbs out of and back into the connectors. Follow the instructions in either manual, with the following additions. This is based on a V65 Magna, but should be generally applicable to others.
Removal:
- While you don't *have* to remove the tank, doing so makes it easier to deal with the airbox. The airbox top is a tight fit, and the gasket can stick and/or snag. It's thin and fragile and would be easy to break, so watch it.
- On the front connectors, loosen the bands on the carb side only. Loosen both bands on the rear connectors.
- The rubber connectors may have hardened and they may be reluctant to let go of the carbs. The trick is to work on only one pair at a time. Work the carbs out of the rear connectors first. If you can't get them out with hand pressure, you can use a long screwdriver or equivalent between the cylinder head and the back of the carb assembly to exert gentle firm pressure forward. (One list member reports that a piece of 1" x 3" hard wood like birch works well.)! Be careful. Don't pry on the airbox itself; it is thin walled and could be damaged. Not much force is needed, just firmness and control. Then similarly lift the assembly out of the front connectors. (Some list members report that it is easier for them to reverse this and take out the front ones first. If you do this remember to loosen both bands on the front connectors.)
- Slide the carbs to the left to gain access to the throttle & choke cables. Prop the carbs up with your knee so they don't fall.
- Loosen the choke cable bracket and disconnect the cable end.
- Instead of detaching the throttle cables from the bracket, try using a ratcheting offset phillips screwdriver to detach the throttle cable bracket from the carbs. Then, disconnect the throttle cable ends, twisting the throttle grip to gain slack.
To reinstall:
- Coat the insides of the connectors lightly with silicon grease. Slide the carbs partway in from the left and reconnect the throttle and choke cables.
- Place the carbs so that the front carbs rest centered on their connectors, in position to slide together. Place the rear carb connectors at an angle between the carbs and intakes so the connectors overlap the top of the intakes and the bottom of the carbs.
- Press the front carbs into their connectors. If necessary use the long screwdriver between the carbs and frame; take it easy and protect the airbox rim with a shim of wood or cardboard. The rear carbs now line up with their connectors and can be similarly pushed into place. (As noted, some report finding this easier in rear-front order instead of front-rear.)
- Tighten the connector bands and adjust the throttle and choke cables. Watch the airbox gasket when you're reinstalling the top.
If the connectors are old and hard the carbs may be hard to R&R. Consider replacing them; they are about $10 each list.
There are a couple of approaches here. The basic or minimum-diassasembly method is recommended in the Clymer manual, which says that if you need to separate the carbs you should take them to the dealer. OTOH a complete rebuild, with a thorough cleaning by immersion in carburetor cleaner and such things as proper lubrication of the felt throttle shaft lubrication rings and replacement of fuel joint and air joint O-rings, requires complete disassembly. The Honda manual provides instructions. However, basic inspection and cleaning can be done without separating the carbs. If you do take them apart, eyeball the initial balance by lining up the throttle plates with the bypass holes before reinstalling them.
Do you need 4 $30 rebuild kits? Unless you have to replace parts, this also is your call. Many list members have re-used parts like float valves and bowl gaskets successfully.
According to a Honda America employee:
"Don't put silicone anywhere on a carburetor. A very light coating of Gaskacinch (the Japanese equivalent of what is used at the factory) works good. If the gasket appears limp, or if injudicious use of carb cleaner has made it swell and become difficult to glue down, drop it in a container of hot soapy water for several minutes to normalize it. Then lightly coat it with Gaskacinch, let dry, and very lightly coat the bowl groove, and let dry, and put them together."
Note that the Honda manual says to remove the starter jet. The starter jet is removable only on some Sabres & Magnas; on others it is pressed in. There appears to be no particular pattern to this. If it doesn't have a screwdriver slot or hex on it, take the hint. Otherwise just follow either manual. If you have a vernier caliper of the kind where the sliding part sticks out of the butt end when you open it up, the sticking out part makes a pretty decent float level gauge. Make sure carb cleaner or WD-40 blown into all the appropriate orifices comes out the holes in the carburetor throat, and don't forget the air jet orifice upstream from the butterfly. (Be careful not to get carb cleaner in your eyes.)
There is something of a controversy regarding use of wire to clean jets, and technical columns in magazines don't agree on this, either. OTOH there are times when there's something in there so stubborn that only a good stiff wire will get it out. The key thing is to not damage the orifices, so it would be best to use a carb cleaning tool, which has smoothly ridged wires of various sizes. They are available by MO from various sources, and similar if not identical tools are sold by welding supply stores for cleaning the tips of oxyacetylene torches.
One thing you must do: keep the parts from the different carbs separate; some of them are not the same. Large numbered zip lock freezer bags work well for this. One list member recommends replacing "all those worthless phillips head screws" with corrosion proof allen head screws--on the bowls, top plates, and especially on the airbox.
This is pretty straightforward; you mostly just follow the manual and the instructions that come with your synch tool. A big floor fan blowing on the radiator helps keep the coolant temp down while you're working, or if you have a fanstat bypass switch installed turning it on also helps. If you've had the carbs apart, eyeball the initial balance by lining up the throttle plates with the bypass holes before reinstalling them.
Mercury tools are inexpensive and never need adjustment, but mercury is poisonous and environmentally incorrect. If you're not careful the mercury can get sucked into the engine. It won't hurt the engine, and the instructions that come with the tool should explain how to purge it. Dial gauges don't contain mercury, but good ones are expensive.
You have to have some sort of angle drive tool to turn the synch screws. The Honda tool shown in the manual lists for around $60.
Alternatives:
- Snap On P/N TM65, $15. One end has a thumb screw and the other has a 4" flexible extension w/ 1/4" connector for a 7mm socket.
- Sidewinder 1/4" drive (Sporty's Tool Shop #1358T $29.95 800-543-8633).
- Skew tool (a 1/4" drive right angle drive tool; look in hardware stores).
There are a couple of common situations where some tuning may be needed.
- MIDRANGE HESITATION. EPA mandated carburetion can result in too lean a mix in the midrange, causing surging or hesitation at mid rpm. This seems to be more of a problem on 700s and V45s than V65s. It can be corrected by raising the needles slightly, which results in more gas when the slides are partially open. Thanks to EPA, the needles are not adjustable, but they can be lifted a little by shimming the needles with 3mm washers. List members report that there probably will be room for only one washer, which may not be quite enough. In that case you might consider installing a jet kit such as Dynojet.
- OFF-IDLE HESITATION. This can result from too lean a mix at low speed. Big Brother says no-no to meddling with the pilot screws, except for adjustment needed for different altitudes, which is why they're covered with metal plugs. If you have to drill out the plugs, put a piece of tubing over the drill bit to prevent it from damaging the screw heads.
CLUTCH SLIPPING
Don't panic, you may not need a clutch rebuild. First, make sure the hydraulic system is working properly. Air in the system and/or crud in the clutch cylinder can prevent the clutch from engaging fully. Try bleeding and flushing the system. If that doesn't do it, either the cylinder is malfunctioning or the clutch does need attention. Flushing may not remove all the junk from the clutch cylinder, so the next simplest thing to try is a clutch cylinder cleaning and rebuild. If slipping persists, disassemble the clutch and measure the plates and springs. (See MANUALS, starter idler gear gotcha.) If the plates and springs meet specs, either the clutch cylinder is still malfunctioning and needs to be replaced, or possibly the clutch plates have been ruined by an oil additive.
DIFFERENCESBETWEEN SABRES AND MAGNAS (beside the obvious) [Anyone?]
| '83 VF1100C V65 Magna | |
| Model Year | 1983 |
| V.I.N. | JH2SC120XDM000029- |
| Engine | SC12E-2000039- |
| Product Code | MB4 |
| Color | Pearl Siren Blue or Candy Maroon |
| Cast wheels with "Star" shaped design, headlight shel, instruments & Fr
Fender are chrome '83-'86, speed nos. in increments of 10 ending with "0s" '83-'84, Fiber optics integrated lock anti-theft system '83-'85. |
| '84 VF1100C V65 Magna | |
| Model Year | 1984 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1204EA100001-
California - 1HFSC1219EA100004- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC12E-2100001-
California - SC12E-2102298- |
| Product Code | MB4 |
| Color | Black or Candy Andromeda Red |
| California model designation is VF1100CL'84, Cast wheels with straight spoke design '84-'86. |
| VF1100C'85 V65 Magna | |
| Model Year | 1985 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1209FA200001-
California - 1HFSC1218FA200001- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC12E-2200001-
California - SC12E-2200001- |
| Product Code | MB4 |
| Color | Black or Pearl Vintage Red |
| California model designation is VF1100CL'85, Speed Nos in increments of 10 ending with "5's" '85-'86, Control levers with screw-type adjusters '85-'86, Push-to-cancel turnsignals switch '85-'86 |
| VF1100C'86 V65 Magna | |
| Model Year | 1986 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1203GA300001-
California - 1HFSC1212GA300001- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC12E-2300001-
California - SC12E-2300001- |
| Product Code | MB4 |
| Color | Black or Candy Glory Red |
| California model designation is VF1100CL'86, Engine Side Cases are polished,
Side stand is chrome plated, FR & RR brake discs with inner cut-offs, Fiber optics integrated lock anti-theft system deleted. |
| VF1100S'84 V65 Sabre | |
| Model Year | 1984 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1707EA000001- California - 1HFSC1716EA000001- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC17E-2000001- California - SC17E-2000001- |
| Product Code | MB3 |
| Color | Black/Pleiades Silver Metallic/Red or Black/Maroon/Silver |
| California model designation is VF1100SL'84, Black/Silver unit has red stripe, Black/Maroon unit has silver stripe, Speed Nos in increments of 10 ending with "0's", |
| VF1100S'85 V65 Sabre | |
| Model Year | 1985 |
| V.I.N. | 49 State - 1HFSC1701FA100001- California - 1HFSC1710FA100001- |
| Engine | 49 State - SC17E-2100001- California - SC17E-2100001- |
| Product Code | MB3 |
| Color | Black/Monte Rosa Silver Metallic/Red or Black/Monterosa Silver Metallic/Blue |
| California model designation is VF1100SL'85, Color variations (red & Blue) are stripes only, Speed Nos in increments of 10 ending with "5's" |
ENGINE
One SabMag list member reports the following data (measured from the underside of the handle to the "full" mark):
1984 V65 Sabre - 152mm (one data point)
1984-85 V65 Magna - 157-158mm (three data points)
V45 Magna - 147mm (two data points)
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
There are a lot of SabMag posts related to ignition problems. The troubleshooting guide in the Honda manual is OK, but it doesn't explain how the system works. The following simplified explanation is adapted from Tranter.
The SabMag ignition system is frequently referred to as a capacitor discharge (CDI) system, but it is actually a more advanced transistorized system. Basically, there are two separate systems, one for cylinders 1 & 3 and one for cylinders 2 & 4, as diagrammed in the manual, with the major components of each being the pulse generator, spark unit, and ignition coil. Base timing is determined by the position of a protrusion on the starter clutch. (In the Honda manual for the V65 Magna, you can see it in the drawing at the top of p. 7-13 and under the left index finger in the top photo on p. 7-23.) The protrustion acts as a "reluctor." That is, when it approaches the pulse generator, which is a coil with a magnetic core, it induces a change in the field of the magnet that in turn induces a voltage pulse in the coil. A second pulse is generated as the protrusion leaves the pulse generator. Since the generation of these pulses is strongly dependent on the distance between the reluctor and the magnet, the air gap between the protrusion and the pulse generator must be correct.
In the spark unit, the "pulse shaper" adjusts the voltage signals from the pulse generator to give a clean cutoff of current to the primary side of the coils and to compensate for variations in pulse voltage due to engine speed. The spark unit also controls advance and dwell, amplifies primary voltage to the coils, and adjusts for variations in battery and alternator voltage. Their complexity and construction are why it is not practical to test or repair them. They either work or they don't. The 1-3 unit controls the tach, so a sudden loss of power and a failed or screwy-acting tach indicates a failed 1-3 spark unit.
From the spark units to the plugs, the system is pretty conventional, except that each subsystem fires both plugs every revolution. That is, each plug fires at the top of the exhaust stroke as well as at the top of the compression stroke.
We have one report of a coil that tested good according to the tests in the Honda manual, but which tested bad at the dealer's shop. Thus, if you're having problems with firing on the 1-3 or 2-4 cylinder pair, and it isn't the spark unit, you might want to have the coil tested by the dealer or an electrical shop.
One good thing to do with wiring harnesses is to take apart every connector and clean both sets of connectors. Get a can of good contact cleaner. A small awl for releasing the clip that holds the contact in the plastic connector, a tube of silicone brake grease, a pencil eraser (the slightly abrasive kind), and a small pair of pliers. Carefully tale apart each connector and spray the dirt out with the contact cleaner. Remove each wire from the connector, clean the male blade connector with the eraser and the wash off with the contact cleaner. Only remove and clean one wire at a time. That way you won't forget where it goes back. Very carefully tighten the curl on the edges of the female connector. If there is any corrosion clean it out with a small piece of 300 grit sandpaper. The corrosion in the blade connectors is the major cause of connector meltdown. If there appears to be corrosion where the wire is crimped to the connector, you can use a small wattage soldering iron and resin core solder to solder it. Don't over cook it. Squirt a blob of high temp grease in the connector before putting it back together and you should eliminate most electrical connector related problems.
The turn signal switch, kill switch, and rear brake switch, at least, can be disassembled and cleaned as above. Be careful when disassembling, as plastic parts can break and springs fly across the garage.
As reported from one SabMag list member:
There is a small circuit board inside the instrument panel. It is about 2 inches by 2 inches [ 5cm by 5 cm ] in size. There are 4 wires going to that circuit board with the following colors:
Yellow / Blue Goes to CLOCK SET Button
Yellow / Red Goes to CLOCK SET Button
Yellow / Green Goes to CLOCK SET Button
Green / Black GROUND WireNote: The CLOCK SET BUTTON is located on the panel between the
handlebars. Also have Check; Lamp Reset; and Trip Reset
nearby.There are two others wires associated with the CLOCK circuit. They are located in the plastic housing near the Clutch and choke actuator. The Sabre has a feature called Elapsed Time Clock. It can be used for timing how long it takes to get from point A to point B. For example: from mile marker 1 to mile marker 2. A switch at this housing controls whether you are in CLOCK MODE or Elapsed Time Mode. This select-switch has 3 wires going to it:
Green GROUND
Red / Blue Goes to MAIN circuit board in Instrument Cluster
Yellow / Blue Goes to MAIN circuit board in Instrument ClusterI have a VF750S UK [ united kingdom ] Model , Colorized Wiring Schematic. It is hard to decipher the Power wires that you need identified. There appear to be a few that go into the instrument cluster and the related CLOCK circuit board.
Black / Brown appears to be a power wire as it comes from the fuse box
Yellow / Red appears to be a power wire
Red / Blue appears to be a power wire
Yellow / Black appears to be a power wire
Red is a power wire coming from the main 30A fuseEXAMPLES: Black / Brown is a Black wire with a brown stripe
Yellow / Red is a Yellow wire with a red stripe
Red / Yellow is a Red wire with a yellow stripeBEFORE going into the Instrument Cluster again; you may want to check the wiring in the small electrical panel between the handlebars. Check the wiring
for the CLOCK SET switch for good connections. Next check the wiring in the wiring-box that is located on the left handlebar. Open it up and check the wiring for the CLOCK and ELAPSED TIME toggling switch. Then go into the instrument panel for a check of those wires. I think that the Black / Brown wire might prove out to be the power wire that feeds the clock. The Black / Brown wire feeds power to the TACH; FUEL & TEMP UNIT; NEUTRAL LIGHT and SPEEDOMETER as well as the TRIP CLOCK circuit. From what I can decipher; any color code with GREEN in it appears to be a return path or GROUNDING wire. It may well be that your Clock Instrument is toast. If power is getting to it and its' ground wire is okay...... then it simply doesn't work anymore.
EXHAUST SYSTEM
The exhaust system can be removed and replaced without disassembly. You'll either need a helper, or use a floor jack under the collector. For removal, leave a little space above the jack, remove the fasteners according to the manual, and wiggle the system loose while lowering the jack in stages until the system is free. To replace, first put the packing sleeves on the rear headers and smear a thin coat of graphite grease on them. Then spread the openings of the connectors on top of the collector slightly. If they are rusty shine up the insides with a wire brush or emery strip. Smear the insides with a little graphite grease. Lift the system up so the front headers are in position, being careful not to bend the gaskets, and so the connectors on the collector are carefully lined up ready to slide over the rear headers. With some jiggling and gentle upward pressure from the jack they should slide on.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Exhaust system rattles not due to loose fasteners may be caused by broken welds holding the inner tubing in the double walled headers, or to loose baffles in the collector. Loose baffles apparently are one reason for the scarcity of salvageable collectors.
AFTERMARKET SYSTEMS
Holeshot lists Vortex 4-into-1 systems for Sabres, Magnas, and Interceptors. Chrome systems for Sab/Mags are $369-$389, and black ceramic finish ones are $379-$399. They are made by MAC and appear to be the same ones sold by MAC for somewhat lower prices. Dale Walker recommends installing a Dynojet Stage I kit with these systems. As of this writing, Kerker still makes a chrome 4-1 system for Magnas, which is listed by DK (over $500). Unfortunately both have noise levels >99dB and are sold for closed course (off-road) use only.
One list member who tried both systems for his Sabre reports that (1) the sound of the Kerker is better than that of the Vortex, (2) the Kerker appears to be better made, since the chrome on the Vortex system quickly yellowed, and (3) MAC apparently has stopped making the ceramic coated systems.
Slip-on replacement mufflers are available from Holeshot, DK, et al.
FAIRINGS & WINDSCREENS
Unfortunately there are so many variables involved that there is no general consensus among list members as to what works best, and finding one you like is likely to involve some experimentation. Bar/fork mount models are less expensive and more easily installed than frame mounts, but have more adverse effects on stability and handling. Larger models offer more protection but more adverse effects on stability, handling, and top speed. Models that are designed, or can be adjusted, so that the airstream breaks clean from the edges, rather than churning up a lot of turbulence, will be quieter and more comfortable. Having your helmet entirely in a clean airstream will produce less noise and buffeting than having the top inch in a paint-shaker turbulent zone. Your height & posture also are factors, as is your helmet; some are quieter than others.
Getting Gold Wing-like protection may well require something so large you have to look through the plastic, which will result in at least some reduction in vision. There's always at least a little distortion, and it goes downhill from there as bugs, road grime, and scratches accumulate or if it rains.
INEXPENSIVE BAR/FORK MOUNTS are available from major MO houses, most from $50 to $150, various brands such as National Cycle, Cyclear, Slip Streamer, Tracy, etc. Some list members report bracket breakage problems with Slip Streamer and other brand mounts for bikes with rectangular bars.
Several list members report using or having tried the Natl Cycle Plexistar 2. Some thought it too noisy, others like it. Appears stable to at least 80 mph. You may get less turbulence over the top with it raked way back.
The Natl Cycle Deflector Shield is small, sort of a minimalist approach, inexpensive (less than $50), easy to install, and has a wide range of adjustment. Recommended by several list members.
One list member reports that he doesn't care for the Tracy Road Warrior on his V65 Magna and does not recommend it.!
FANSTAT (RADIATOR FAN THERMOSTATIC SWITCH)
ECHLIN FS130, about $28 from NAPA. Turns on at 191-197F (ascending) and off at 182-187F (descending). The element is about 1/2" longer than the Honda one, but it screws right in and it has the two bayonet connectors found on early V4's.
One list member reports using a fanstat from a salvaged '84 Honda Accord, and the wiring connector for it. It was stamped "92' 87'", which probably indicates that it should turn on at 92C and off at 87C. When tested, this was pretty close. The Accord fanstat runs two fans through a relay, so you also need to get the relay out of the fuse box, just behind the battery on the right fender. It is marked "Fan" on the cover. While you're there, look around the engine compartment for a connector (with all four terminals in it---sometimes they use a 4 wire connector with only 2 or 3 wires) that fits onto the relay, and cut it out of the harness with about 6" tails to work with. The bike's wiring for the fan looks like this:
| blk/blu blue black green
+----~---------=------------(M)----=-----o/o----------------> fuse plug fan motor fan stat ground |
It needs to be made into this:
| 1 3 +----~---|-------o/o-------=------(M)---=-----| fuse | %<-coil |4 2|--------%------------o/o------------|-------------> relay fan stat |
Proceed as follows:
Remove both steering head covers and the left covers of the radiator. Trace the wiring to the fan, which has a connector behind the steering head cover, and the fanstat. Remove the looming from the fanstat wiring where it goes across the frame, and from the wiring between the fuse and wiring harness. Cut the black/blue wire between the fuse and the fan connector. Strip both ends and install female blade connectors on both, with a 3" piece of stranded wire siamesed in with the one from the fuse. Put a connector on the end of the 3" piece as well. The two connectors are #s 1 and 2 above, while the connector on the end toward the plug is # 3. Cut the black wire from the fan connector and "leech" it onto the green wire from the fanstat, either by soldering or with a self stripping wire connector--connection 4. Cut the black wire from the fan stat and install another female wire connector on it--connection 5. The relay will be marked with symbols like this: -|/|- for the coil, terminations 2 and 5, and something like this: -o/o- , which are the relay contacts, #s 3 and 4. If you find a 3 terminal relay, the connection between 1 and 2 is internal, and you will not need the siamesed wire. Other relays may have 4 or 5 terminals, but 2 of them may be marked "NO" and "NC". Use the "NO" contact as # 4, and insulate the "NC" contact, as it will be hot when the fan stat is open (cold).
Brand name: GP Sorenson
Part Number: 40-5001
Price: $14.99 (Advance Auto Parts- prices may vary from state to state.)
Thread pitch: M16 X 1.5
Normally open
Closes at 189 to 199 degrees F
Opens at 181 to 171 degrees F
This switch is the direct equivalant to the NAPA #FS130
This switch fits many Honda car applications,
1975-1991 Honda Civic All 3 door(hatchback) and CRX models
also 1986-1991 Acura Integra, all engine sizes.
FILTERS
K&N and Uni sell alternatives to the Honda units.
An inexpensive unit that is a close replacement for the Honda one is available from DK and may be found in auto supply stores. Some Honda dealers also carry them.
You can find alternatives that are a lot cheaper and that fit on the bike, but unless you verify the flow rate and bypass pressure, you're on your own.
Also, from another list member:
Wix now has a bonafide list of motorcycle models and related oil filters. The 1334 which was for the VFR is now for the VF/VFR's thru 1986. The Wix filter for the 90-current model VFR is 1358. The price is about half ($5.50 US) and readily available.
FOIL ALARM SYSTEM
This was an alarm system that used a fiber optic cable and was powered by a 9V battery. The cable was looped around some object and inserted into the alarm unit using the ignition key. If the cable was cut or pulled out the alarm sounded. Clever idea, but the cable couldn't stand being rolled up tightly and crammed into the tool box, and they failed regularly and early. Replacements cost around $150. Honda sells a little metal plate that can be used to cover the space left if you remove the unit, at least for Magnas. It's a pain to install, since you have to remove the auxiliary fuel tank to get to the bolt holding the alarm unit.
FORK BRACE
See SUSPENSION.
FUEL TANK RUSTING
Deal with this with a liquid tank liner. The standard product for bikes is called Kreem. It is available from MO houses. You may also be able to find similar products at auto supply stores. If you use Kreem, you basically follow the directions, with the following exceptions and cautions.
- Before you start, find some way to get excess liquid out of the tank. Most tanks cannot be drained completely. You'll need this for all 3 solutions. A 60cc syringe with a piece of 1/4" plastic tubing works.
- Don't buy the kit containing one bottle of each of the three solutions. You will need more than the one bottle of etching solution even if you don't have a lot of rust. The stuff is just phosphoric acid, and you may be able to find it locally either as the acid or disguised as liquid rust remover. The Kreem bottle of MEK is plenty for one job. An alternative is to substitute acetone from a paint supplier or hardware store. One bottle of the liner is plenty, enough for 2 or 3 tanks.
- All of the solutions will damage the paint, and the process is unavoidably messy. A heavy coat of wax might help, but be prepared for the chance that you'll have to repaint. IOW, if the tank needs paint, do that after the Kreem.
- If the tank is badly rusted, Kreem recommends you shake around some nuts & bolts in the tank to knock it loose. Some list members report that this works OK, others that getting them back out was a bitch. One suggestion: use a piece of chain instead, and hang onto the end of it. You might as well use water instead of using up the etching solution for this, and you may have to repeat this step.
- Expect to leave the etching solution in the tank longer, maybe a lot longer, than the instructions indicate. If the metal is pretty clean, overnight to a day or two will probably do it, but if there is a lot of rust it could take several days. If that is the case you probably should rinse out the loosened rust after a while and add fresh etching solution to finish up.
- If the tank is badly rusted, don't be surprised if it develops leaks while being etched. Put something under it to catch the acid if this happens.
- A good way to dry the tank is to set up a shop vac with the hose on the exhaust side to blow into the tank to dry it after the the MEK step. Be sure to do this in a very well ventilated area so there is no chance of the motor setting off any fumes.
- Before putting the tank aside to dry after the last step, make damn sure the fuel hose connections are open. If that stuff sets up in the vent hose connection you will have a fine time getting it out.
GEARSHIFT FAILURE
This is likely to be due to a broken gear shift arm spring.
HANDLEBARS (MAGNAS)
This report from one list member concerning use of the K&N Nighthawk/Magna bars on V65 Magnas: "My first installation of these bars was on a 1984 V65 Magna. The hydraulic cables fit OK, but they were kind of tight when the handlebar was turned to one extreme. I had to loosen the clutch line from its clamp on the frame to alleviate the stress. When the handlebars were turned all the way to the left, there was a slight tension on the throttle cables, which increased the engine RPM by about 100. I decided to live with it. Also, the stock Honda handlebars have a little hole near the end. Into this hole fits a little protrusion from the choke/horn assembly to keep it from rotating. Instead of drilling a new hole in the handlebars, I just bent the tab back, and put some high friction tape on the handlebars at the spot where the hole was. This worked out OK. None of the wiring presented any difficulty. I used this configuration for about 1 year, approximately 25,000 miles, with no difficulty. Since then, I have added braided steel hydraulic lines, which I had made 2" longer than stock. Those worked better than the stock lines. With the braided lines (and unchanged throttle) I rode for another year approximately 30,000 miles. On my 1986, I noticed that the clutch and brake master cylinder were different from those on the 1984. The fitting came out the front, not the side as in the 1984. I installed the same handlebars on the 1986, with the lengthened braided steel lines from the hospitalized 1984. I don't know what difference the repositioning of the hydraulic line output would make with stock lines, but it seems that it would slightly alleviate the stress upon handlebar extremes. On the 1986 I kept the stock throttle & choke cables, which causes it to be just as tight (at extremes) as the 1984. The only time it has any affect is when I turn the handlebars fully to the left. This rarely happens to me in any type of riding. When I first bought the 1986 V65, I wanted bars that had a really long pullback, for comfort. I bought these from Flanders Co.; I don't recall the P/N. I also bought lengthened throttle cables, from Flanders. Actually, I sent them cables, and they lengthened them for me for about $15 ea. I rode with the long pullback bars for a while, but I felt they were too narrow. The width was only 29" or so, and with the very long pullback, it put my hands in a very uncomfortable position. I went back to the K&N ones. I am debating whether to buy wider bars with a longer pullback, such as Dennis Kirk P/N 59-48 [Honda 750-900 Custom], since I already have the lengthened throttle cables. Only the future will tell.
The K&N Magna handlebars, if you are mechanically inclined, should go on without much difficulty in a few hours of your time. If you go any larger, you will definitely have to modify your cables, including Both throttles, choke, clutch line, and at least your upper front brake line. The cable modification is not that difficult a task. Flanders Co. in California was very helpful and informative, and they have a free catalog. Flanders can be reached at 800-423-4483."
HANDLEBARS (SABRES)
For the V45 Sabre ('82 and '83 in the US and '82 to '85 in Canada) the bars are clip-on style. The options in changing them are limited. For a lower bar, you can mount them below the triple clamp, or try to use Interceptor bars. The VF500 had the same diameter fork tubes, but the Sabre has bulkier switch gear to mount, and the 750 Interceptor had a larger fork tube, so it won't just bolt up. Novella sells a bracket to convert to a tube bar, but space between the fork legs is used up by the odometer and accessory switches. While you could use a tube bar with this, you would have to cut out the center section, in essence making your own clip-ons. Novella (847-359-2666) also sells clip on bars for a variety of fork diameters, but space for mounting the switch gear remains a concern.
HORNS
Louder horns are highly recommended. You may see a "tip" that turning out the adjusters on backs of the stock horns (which may be covered with some kind of goop and painted over) will make them louder (MCN 9/96 p. 4). List members report this doesn't do much other than change the pitch.
MO houses sell louder horns, but Fiamms in particular are highly regarded, and several list members highly recommend them. They can be found at auto supply stores, although some searching may be required, or a dealer may be able to order them for you. Installation is easiest with a kit that includes the relay, fuse, and instructions. If you can't find one, you can get a suitable 30A relay and a 20A inline fuse at an auto supply store. The circuits are
HOSES
An alternative to Honda hoses is 7/8" heater hose, if you can find it. This will serve for the straight ones, but the ones on the water pump are too sharply bent.
Use bulk hose of the correct size. Honda dealers carry metric hose; it is a little expensive, but $10-$15 worth is enough to completely replace the fuel and breather hoses. We have one report that the large hose between the main and reserve tanks can be replaced with 3/4" heater hose with a piece of smaller hose inside to keep it from kinking. Our advice is that if you're going to try this make sure the hose is neoprene. Some compounds don't stand up to gasoline. [We don't recommend using hose not specifically labeled for fuel use.]
LIGHTS
WATTAGE Increased wattage bulbs are popular, from 100w/55w on up; at least a couple of list members use 130/90s. Sold by DK, Chaparral, etc. No problems with wiring, burnt reflectors, or tickets are reported. [High-wattage bulbs are illegal in many places, if you care.]
FAILURE If the headlight fails to come on either high or low beam, check for voltage at the starter switch terminal to the headlight. (The starter switch turns off the headlight while cranking.) Dirty contacts are fairly common; treat with electrical contact cleaner. If this fails, you can try disassembling the switch and polishing the contacts with crocus cloth, but you may have to buy an entire starter/kill switch assembly, since the individual switches aren't sold separately.
First, check the bulb. If it's good, the problem commonly is worn or dirty contacts in the ignition switch, which has separate circuits for the taillight and main power. Verify with a VOM. Treat by disassembling the switch (watch out for the springs) and cleaning with contact cleaner. Polish the contacts with crocus cloth if corroded. If a replacement switch is needed, you can get an alternative part from DK and probably other MO houses as well for much less than the Honda part. Disadvantage is that you would then need 2 keys.
LUGGAGE
From one list member: "...Sacs...are made for Harleys, but work great on any Magna with a sissy bar. Being a Harley accessory, they're not too cheap, but they've been well worth the expense... There are two bags... The larger one is about $130 and the small one is about $80. ... Each bag has a flap that fits over the sissy bar, and straps which wrap around the rear turn signals to anchor it down. If you ride alone, the bag sits on the passenger seat; with a passenger, it hangs off the back. The smaller bag is about the size of a small duffle bag, and has a Velcro-in plastic bag for ice, so it doubles as a cooler for picnics. It's great for tooling around town & running errands, and can be strapped on top of the larger bag. The larger bag is the size of a large backpack, and the tie-down straps convert to shoulder straps once you get off the bike. It's great for when you don't want to leave all your gear on your bike, and don't have anywhere to stash your bags, like on camping trips, which is exactly what I wanted the bags for. Also, without a passenger, the large bag makes a great full-size backrest. The bags are very sturdy--nylon around what feels like neoprene foam.
There is a competing product called T-bags, which I was thinking about getting when I first looked into this type of bag. The T-bags do have some advantages: They're cheaper (about $130 for a model similar to the two Sacs combined). They have a model specifically made for Magnas, whereas the Sacs are specifically for Hogs, and don't fit perfectly. They seem to have more pockets and compartments. Sacs have one big compartment and a few small map-type Velcro pockets on the outside. Disadvantages: T-Bags are made from a thinner material and don't seem as sturdy. They have lots of straps to flap around, where the sacs only have the tie-down straps. No cooler capability, as far as I'm aware. All in all, I'm very happy with the Sacs, and use them much more than I use my saddlebags.
Another nice thing is that, since they hang off the sissy bar, they can be used along with saddlebags (and a tank bag, if you really need that much gear) for long trips with a passenger."
Eclipse tank bags also are favored by many. Also, from one list member: "Let me put my vote in for a bag that doesn't get much press: the Fox. They make two, the Sport Shuttle and the one I own. ... The Sport Shuttle...[has] one main compartment with...lots of room and [is] recommended for the $40.00 asking price. ...
[T]he larger tankbag, ...$70, ...I highly recommend...Lots of room, expandable, and it has three small pockets on the sides and rear of the bag. For scratch prevention, it rides on a large neoprene pad. Uses a standard three-point mounting. ...I couldn't be happier with another bag than the Fox. ...I would challenge Eclipse to beat the Fox bag. This coming from a guy riding 13-15K mi./yr, both vacation trips and daily trips to client sites."
MANUALS, ERRORS/OMISSIONS/EXCEPTIONS
- Some carburetor starter jets are not removable, but the manual just says to remove them.
- The starter idler gear turns on a dowel pin between the clutch cover and the crankcase. It can fall off when the cover is removed; be prepared so it doesn't get damaged. To get it back on, put a wrench on the crank and rotate it a little while working the gear back into place.
- Doesn't cover fork oil changes. (The Clymer does.)
- Doesn't specify the torque for brake pivot bolts. (See BRAKES, CALIPERS.)
Recommends adjustment of the rear brake pedal to 1/4" below the footpeg (p. 35). The correct adjustment is 1/4" above the footpeg.
OIL
Almost everybody uses synthetic or a synthetic/petroleum blend. Change intervals are frequent, every 3000 miles for most list members. FWIW one list member relates that Megacycle does not recommend Golden Spectro oils, saying they don't provide enough protection for the cams and followers. They do recommend Kendall, Red-Line, Motul, and Honda.
OIL PRESSURE, CHECKING
The manual describes checking oil pressure at the oil pressure light switch hole. The hole is metric thread just *slightly* smaller than 1/8" NPT. You need a male M12 x 1 to female 1/8 NPT adapter ('85 V65 Magna; check on other models). These adapters are sold by auto parts suppliers to enable oil pressure gauge installation on metric engines. You attach a mechanical oil pressure gauge (the kind that connects to the engine with small tubing) to the adapter.
PERFORMANCE STATISTICS
(from Cycle World reviews of the '82 v45 Magna, '83 v65 Magna and the '82 V45 Sabre)
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| Power, bhp @ rpm: | 80.3 @ 9500 | 80.3 @ 9500 | 116 @ 9500 | 93.7 (CW dyno) |
| Torque, lb-ft @ rpm: | 46.2 @ 8000 | 46.2 @ 8000 | 70 @ 7500 | 62.5 (CW dyno) |
| Test wt, lb: | 518 | 525 | 579 | 594 |
| 1/4 mile, sec @ mph: | 12.08 @ 108.82 | 12.16 @ 108.43 | 11.07 @ 123.62 | 11.38@ 120.36 |
| Top speed (1/2 mi): | 122 mph | 123 | 137 mph | 139 mph |
| MPG: | 46 | 49.5 | 39 | |
| Range to reserve, mi: | 120 | 183 | 144 | 207 |
Acceleration (seconds)
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| 0-30: | 1.8 | 1.8 | 1.8 | 1.5 |
| 0-40: | 2.7 | 2.7 | 2.6 | 2.0 |
| 0-50: | 3.6 | 3.6 | 3.4 | 2.7 |
| 0-60: | 4.6 | 4.6 | 4.3 | 3.3 |
| 0-70: | 5.5 | 5.5 | 5.2 | 4.1 |
| 0-80: | 6.6 | 6.6 | 6.1 | 4.9 |
| 0-90: | 7.8 | 7.8 | 7.0 | 6.0 |
| 0-100: | 9.6 | 9.7 | 8.3 | 7.3 |
Top gear (seconds)
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| 40-60: | 4.8 | 5.0 | 4.2 | 3.7 |
| 60-80: | 5.5 | 5.7 | 3.6 | 3.9 |
Calculated max. speed in gears, mph
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| 1st: | 48 | 51 | 57 | 58 |
| 2nd: | 68 | 72 | 80 | 82 |
| 3rd: | 85 | 90 | 100 | 103 |
| 4th: | 103 | 109 | 121 | 124 |
| 5th: | 123 | 130 | 145 | 148 |
| 6th: | 147 | 156 | 173 | 177 |
Speedometer error
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| 30 mph indicated: | 28 | 29 | 29 | 30 |
| 60 mph indicated: | 57 | 58 | 56 | 58 |
Braking distance, ft
| V45 Magna | V45 Sabre | V65 Magna | V65 Sabre | |
| from 30 mph: | 27 | 30 | 29 | 30 |
| from 60 mph: | 125 | 119 | 117 | 127 |
PERFORMANCE COMPARISONS, V65 SABRE.
From Cycle World May '84:
1/4 mile: 11.38 sec @ 120.36 mph
Top speed in 1/2 mile: 139 mph
From Cycle July '84
1/4 mile: 11.20 @ 121.69
From Cycle Guide June '84 "Quickest, Fastest Shootout"
| Bike | 1/4 mile time @ speed | Top speed |
| Yamaha FJ1100 | 10.681 @ 125.34 | 145.9550 |
| Suzuki GS1150ES | 10.742 @ 124.13 | 142.6200 |
| Kawasaki Ninja 908 | 10.831 @ 124.65 | 145.3710 |
| Honda VF1000F | 10.834 @ 125.69 | 146.8187 |
| Honda V65 Sabre | 10.857 @ 125.00 | 140.6250 |
| Kawasaki 750 Turbo | 10.944 @ 122.11 | 143.3121 |
| Kawasaki GPZ1100 | 11.016 @ 120.80 | 138.4615 |
From Cycle May '85 "Horsepower Shootout" (dyno measured)
| Bike | 1/4 mile time @ mph | Bhp @ rpm | Torque @ rpm |
| Suzuki GS1100EF | 10.81 @ 124.44 | 101.00 @ 9000 | 65.11 @ 7500 |
| Yamaha V-Max | 10.99 @ 124.04 | 119.08 @ 9000 | 77.54 @ 6000 |
| Yamaha FJ1100 | 10.99 @ 122.34 | 98.24 @ 9000 | 61.41 @ 7500 |
| Kawasaki ZL900 | 11.07 @ 123.25 | 90.50 @ 9000 | 56.64 @ 8000 |
| Kawasaki ZX900R | 11.08 @ 125.17 | 94.16 @ 10500 | 55.33 @ 8500 |
| Kawasaki ZX750 turbo | 11.13 @ 120.32 | 90.02 @ 9500 | 65.1 @ 5000 |
| Honda VF1100S | 11.23 @ 122.61 | 93.70 @ 9000 | 62.60 @ 7000 |
PRICES (WHAT'S A SAB/MAG WORTH?)
For a guide, see the AMA Official Motorcycle Value Guide.Original, wholesale, and retail prices for last 12 years. Three issues/year; $30/year or $12.95 for current issue; 800-972-5312. (Motorcyclist 11/96 p. 93.)
SIDECOVERS, REPAIR OF TABS
The plastic tabs that hold the sidecovers in place often get broken off. From one list member:
"After trying epoxy alone twice on a broken tab, I tried the following and the tab hasn't broken since. First, I thoroughly cleaned all the old epoxy off the base and the tab. Then I used the point of a 3-cornered file to roughen the hollow area under the tab. I used Loctite #82565, 'Plastix Advanced Plastic Bonder,' to attach the tab. This product is a Super Glue type glue with an 'activator' that you brush on the edges to be joined immediately before applying the glue. Then I filled the hollow area under the tab with epoxy putty; I don't recall the brand but JB Weld or any similar product should work."
SPARK PLUGS
SplitFire: don't bother.
SPARK PLUG WIRES
You can replace the wires in the plug leads. Copper wire is the best; the only reason for the use of resistive type wires is to reduce ignition noise pickup in the radio, and all the fancy electronics in the average new cage. Resistive type wires reduce the intensity of the spark, ie. restrict the current flow. Unscrew the compression sleeve that holds the plug wire in place in the coil. There is an O-ring on the wire; remove and save it. There is a slot in the fitting that pushes over the threaded end of the spark plug, loosen it with a screw driver and remove it from the plug end. You can push the wire out through the rubber plug cap. Unsolder the brass washer from the wire. Cut a new piece of copper core ignition wire to the same length + 1/4" as the old wire. Strip back the insulation and solder the brass washer onto the wire. Feed the wire back through the plug end and reassemble. Put the compression fitting on the other end and replace the O-ring. Smear a bit of dielectric grease inside the plug fitting; this makes it much easier to remove later. Don't forget to check the old plugs for carbon tracks on the insulator. Nothing worse for a good spark than a conductive boot. You can replace the spark plug boots with NGK P/N SD05F and XD05F.
STARTER REBUILD
From Rider magazine's tech Q&A:
Q: I am the owner of a 1985 Honda V65 Sabre with a starter motor that is going bad. I spoke with my local dealer, who shocked me with the price of a new starter-approximately $300! When I asked about getting it rebuilt, they did not recommend it, stating that rebuilt starters do not last. I do not need a starter that will last another 13 years, but a couple of years would be nice. Do you have any recommendations on this and if so, do you know who can do the rebuild?
A: I recommend that you or a competent friend do the re-build. If you can change the oil and filter on your bike, you can repair the starter motor. It's not that difficult, and besides-what do you have to lose? With a lot of bikes, just getting the starter out can be a nightmare. In the case of the V-four Honda it's a snap, as it's held to the front of the engine with two 6mm bolts, and if it takes you more than two minutes to pull it out, you're dragging your feet. Don't worry about the hole in the crankcase it slides into-no oil is going to run out. Here's the one great truth about all motorcycle starter motors: they're all shockingly expensive. What's more, few parts are available separately for them, and in some models, none at all. Compared to some, that $300 you were quoted is a bargain. However, most manufacturers at least offer a carbon brush-plate assembly, because that's the item that usually wears out.
For the V65 the part number's 31206-VM5-008. It sells for about $16. Your bike's starter is held together by two long Phillips screws joining caps at either end to the outer casing. Before disassembly, I recommend making reference marks where the end caps join the casing, because theyr only go back together one way and finding that one way can take ages. Fingernail polish or scratch marks will make reassembly much easier. Gently tap or pry off the end caps-stay after it, they will come off. In each end cap is a small bearing that supports the spinning armature. Make careful note of any shims or thrust washers stuck to these bearings with old grease or carbon dust. Lay everything out in the order it came apart. Now blast all components squeaky clean with brake or electrical cleaner for a thorough examination. Worn out brushes will be obvious. You might even find a cracked soldered connection as the cause of your woes everything in a starter motor is pretty simple, except for the armature. It can have a broken internal winding that's impossible to see, so run it over to your local automotive machine shop or starter motor repair facility for testing. If they give it the thumbs up, have them chuck the armature in a lathe to dress down the end that the carbon brushes ride on, because it will be hour-glass-shaped. If all of this work costs you more than $10 I'd be surprised. Solder in the new brush plate and lightly grease the inner race of the end-cap bearings. If two small planetary gears are employed in one end cap, grease them, too. Reassemble everything and test the starter on the bench with jumper cables and your bike's battery. Attach the negative cable to the body of the starter and the positive cable to the hot input post. Don't be alarmed by a few sparks as you touch the post-just make sure nothing combustible (including the battery) is nearby The starter motor should rock and spin hard when 12 volts are directly applied to it. No, a rebuilt starter motor won't last like a new one. But for less than US$30 and an afternoon's work it will last long enough.
STORAGE, WINTER
| 1. Wash, dry, and wax the bike thoroughly. |
| 2. Drain the coolant, flush the system, and add new coolant. |
| 3. Put some gas stabilizer in the tank (available at auto part stores). Also make sure the tank is as full as possible. |
| 4. Ride the bike until it's warmed up. |
| 5. Change the oil and filter. |
| 6. Lube the chain. (Shafties take a break.) |
| 7. Turn off the fuel petcock. |
| 8. Drain the carb fuel bowls. |
| 9. Remove the air filter. |
| 10. Remove the spark plugs. Inject a small amount of 2-stroke oil into each cylinder. Crank the motor a few times. List members question the value of spraying WD-40 into the air intakes. |
| 11. Replace the spark plugs and air filter. |
| 12. Seal the air intakes with duct tape to keep out mice etc. |
| 13. Remove the battery and put it on a trickle charger in a warm place. |
| 14. Put the bike on the centerstand and block it up so the front tire also is off the ground. |
| 15. Spray some WD40 into the exhaust pipes. This absorbs water and puts a nice oil coating on the insides of the exhaust system. ONLY do this AFTER the pipes are cool to the touch. |
| 16. Seal the ends of the mufflers with plastic bags. |
| 17. Put some silicon preservative on a rag and wipe down all the rubber pieces except for the grips, pegs, and tires. |
| 18. Lube all cables and moving gizmos like foot pegs, levers, etc. |
| 19. Bleed the brakes and clutch. |
| 20. Cover with a breathable cover. Honda suggests that if the bike is going to be in storage for more then 4 months, you change the oil again when you get it out. If you do that, you might as well put cheap oil in for the winter, and replace it in the spring with good oil. (Some list members think this is a waste.) No reason to change the oil filter twice though. |
SUSPENSION/STEERING
Favorable report: the Pocket Pump/Gauge by Richter Performance, which has an aluminum body with an attached gauge and a hose with a screw-on Schrader valve fitting on the end. The aluminum body has a little plunger you press to bleed off air. You have a choice of interchangeable pumps that attach to the aluminum body. The pumps are basically plastic syringes of various sizes.
Snap ring pliers are a must for changing fork seals. It's hard enough with snap ring pliers, after the rings have reacted with the aluminum to weld themselves to the ring groove.
You'll also need a seal driver, but you don't have to pay $29.95 at your local Honda dealer for a specialized tool you'll seldom use. Go to your local hardware superstore and get a piece of 1 1/2" PVC pipe. They'll sell you about 4 feet more than you need, but it's cheap and you can cut off the right amount with a hacksaw. This only works with the 39mm forks of the V45s. V65s have 41mm forks. For these, get a piece of 2" PVC and a 1 1/2" coupler.
Grind or rasp the coupler down so it will fit inside the fork body and cut a piece of the 2" pipe to use on top of that.
There is one report that the pro-moly seals from Leakproof have a tendency to leak, and that stock ones from Honda are better.
Several list members have tweaked their suspensions to improve ride and/or handling, and/or to lower the ride height (of V65 Magnas). One reports a modest approach with a V65 Magna that decreases ride harshness somewhat without adversely affecting handling: For the front, Progressive Suspension springs, with spacers cut so as to duplicate stock preload and ride height; 10w fork oil at the stock level; and 0 psi fork air pressure.
For the rear, Progressive Suspension 17000 shocks and standard weight springs. Be sure to check whether the shocks are being sold with springs assembled. If not, you will need a compression tool to assemble them.
At least a couple of list members have lowered their V65 Magnas and have provided details. In one case, the front suspension was lowered by by 2" and the rear by around 1". The front was lowered by putting spacers in the front fork where the top out spring sits. This requires disassembling the front fork to insert the spacers. The only thing that this modification affects, besides the height, is the maximum travel of the fork, but the Magna has a lot of travel to begin with. (Sliding the forks up in the triple clamp would render the air adjustability useless.)
The rear was lowered by installing shorter shocks. According to Progressive Suspension, there is a 1.2:1 ratio between the shock height and the actual lowering of the bike. The stock shocks are about 14.25" in length. A 13.5" length was used, but 13.0" probably would have been better. Even two up, at full braking & full load, neither the front forks nor the rear shocks bottom out, and speed and performance, even on the track, are very satisfactory.
In the other case, the front was lowered by raising the forks 10 mm in the triple clamps, whereas the rear was left stock height.
Users of the narrow Mustang seat report that they make the bike feel lower.
Custom shocks of various grades and lengths also are available from Ohlins (Noleen Racing, 619-246-5000) and Works Performance (818-701-1010). [Anyone tried any of these?]
NOTE: Be careful fooling around with your suspension. Unless you know what you're doing, get some help or get a mechanic to work on it.
If the steering head bearings need servicing, consider replacing ball bearings with roller bearings if your bike doesn't already have them. One list member reports that the bearings cost about $50. Follow the manual to remove the forks, take apart the stem, drive off the old bearings, and tap in the new bearings. This can take some patience, as they can be stuck tight. You will need a drift to remove the lower race from the stem (it has to go around a bend). One LM reports that a car tire iron works. Also see Motorcyclist 11/96 p. 78.
You can install a grease fitting while you have the stem apart. Find a spot near the top of the stem and below the top bearing which does not interfere with cables, wires, etc. and can be reached with the drill and grease gun. Drill and tap the hole and install the zerk fitting. Grease the bearings, assemble the stem, adjust the bearings, and use the grease gun to fill the stem with grease. Stop when grease starts oozing out of the bearings. Wipe off the excess and reassemble.
Some V65s appear to suffer from a wobble or weave under certain high-demand conditions, especially high-speed (>=90 mph) sweepers. This appears to be inherent and probably is due to flexing of forks, frame, or both. Wobble under other conditions indicates that repairs or adjustments are needed somewhere.
Diagnosis is as follows:
- Check that the steering head bearings aren't loose. This is probably the most common cause of front end wobble.
- Check that the tire pressure, especially the front, is at least up to the recommended level. If you are heavier than average or carrying a load, the pressure may need to be higher. Some tires also seem to perform a little better with slightly higher than recommended pressures. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES EXCEED THE MAXIMUM PRESSURE STATED ON THE TIRE SIDEWALL!
- Check the condition of the tires, especially the front, for "scalloping" or other uneven wear. Make sure they are installed in the correct direction of rotation.
- Loosen all the triple clamp bolts and make sure there is absolutely no "stress" on either fork tube. Check that the fork tubes are straight while you're at it. Also check that the handlebars are straight, then re-tighten the triple clamp bolts. If the fork tubes are not even with the top of the triple clamp, make that adjustment prior to tightening.
- Once you're sure it is not any of the above, you're down to other, less likely items. Systematically check everything that affects damping or could develop excessive tolerances or become misaligned in both the front and rear suspension: wheel bearings, fork bushings, fork oil (you do have fresh fork oil, don't you?), swingarm bushings, front/rear wheel alignment, and wheel runout.
TEMPERATURE GAUGE
Temperature equivalents for the bar gauge.
| Bar | Temp C/F | Conditions |
| 1 | 46/115 | Warm-Up |
| 2 | 54/129 | Warm-Up |
| 3 | 72/162 | Warm-up, highway speed |
| 4 | 93/199 | City speeds, some stops |
| 5 | 102/216 | Heavy traffic, fan off/on |
| 6 | 115/239 | Only balancing carbs, fan off/on |
| 7 | 130/266 | Replace fan switch |
THROTTLE CABLE REMOVAL
See CARBURETORS, R&R.
TIRES
Tire sizes are indicated by number/letter combinations such as 140/90-H16, meaning 140 mm wide, 90% as high as it is wide, and fits a 16" rim. The letter is the rating according to highest continuous speed (S = 112 mph, H = 130 mph, V = 149 mph, and Z = over 149 mph). M_ sizes are American sizes; for example an MR90-18 71H is equivalent to a 120/90-18, and an MU90-16 78H tire is equivalent to a 140-90/16. You don't see these much anymore.
Tires also have a pressure rating molded into the sidewall. This is the MAXIMUM tire pressure, not the recommended pressure. The recommended pressure will be given in the owner's manual and will also be on a decal on the swingarm or under the seat or someplace. The recommended pressure is a guideline based on an average load and riding style. Heavier loads, uh, "spirited" riding, or different tires may require a slightly higher than recommended pressure. Don't use less than the recommended pressure, since this could lead to excessive heat buildup due to increased flexing, which can lead to tire failure.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES EXCEED THE MAXIMUM PRESSURE!
Metzelers appear to be the overwhelming favorite; ME33 Lazer, either regular or Comp K compound, on the front, and either ME99A Perfect or ME55 Metronic on the rear. Bridgestone S11s are reported superior to Dunlop K591s in both traction and mileage, although the K591s appear to be somewhat superior to some of the stock tires.
At least two owners of V65 Magnas (one '84 and one '85) have installed ME99As in 150/80-16, 10 mm wider than the stock 140/90-16, with no clearance problems and no significant change in rpm/mph ratio. The tight spot is the brake torque arm, and with this tire there is about 1/8" clearance. Don't try to use a wider tire on the front. Some 120s will fit (barely), but the bike will handle like a pig.
It is true, in general, that radials require a wider rim. It is also true that at the time the Magna and Sabre were produced, radials were not readily available. Radial tires, however, due to their design, have a range of rim widths that they will fit, as recommended by the manufacturer. In each company's catalog is the recommended rim width for each tire. The 150-80ZR16 radial, from Metzeler, Michelin, and Pirelli, (and also the Sportmax, when they made them), according to the factory catalogs, can be used on the rear of the Magna, and 110/80-18s can be used on the front. One list member has been using radials for 30,000+ trouble free miles on the V65 Magna, and recommends them highly.
The Metzeler MEZ2 radials appear to be unavailable in the US. Some vendors apparently just routinely say the tires are on BO but delivery is expected within 2 weeks, but every time you call it's still 2 weeks and they never get the tires. Apparently Metzeler is selling all of them it makes in Europe. Our radial tire expert says to go with Avons or Michelins. Specifically, for the V65 Magna: front, Avon AV27, 110/80 ZR18; rear, Avon ST23, 150/80 ZR16. He also relates that "the radials don't feel right unless inflated to their maximum rated pressure, or minus two psi. This is verified by information I have obtained from the manufacturer."
We have a report that Battlax BT-17s are superior to Metzeler bias ply tires on a VF1000F.
UPGRADES
I have done quite a bit of research on the red-headed stepchild known as the VF700c. The reason for the tooth count is that the 84 VF700's had a 34 tooth count, which gave it a 3.40 gear ratio. All the remaining Magnas and Sabres had a 36 tooth count, which is a 3.18 ratio. The V65 guys LOVE this swap. The Shadows also had 34 tooth gears, but the final drive isn't a bolt in. You have to take the ring and pinion out and put them into the Magna case. Hope this helps.Nic Conley, ID .
WHEELS
You can check lateral wheel runout with the wheels on the bike, as long as the wheel bearings are tight. A quick check can be made without a dial indicator by clamping a soft lead pencil to the fork or swingarm so the point just barely touches the rim, then rotating the wheel and carefully observing the pencil point. If there is any significant runout you will be able to see it. You can also use a dial indicator similarly.
BLISTERING CHROME ON MAGNA WHEELS
This is a fairly common problem. On the outside it's just cosmetic but it's not unusual for it to get bad enough on the bead sealing areas to cause chronic leaks.
Possible solutions are:
- Inner tubes. Controversial, and not recommended by Honda. Some tires are labeled "use tubes with tube-type rim." Contact the tire manufacturer if you want to try it.
- New wheels. They are still available from Honda at this writing, but are expensive, of course. We aren't aware of any aftermarket wheels.
- Send your wheels to Holeshot for refurbishing. This would cost roughly as much as new wheels.
- Fix them yourself. A bitch of a job, but it can be done, and for around $200 to $250. See WHEELFIX.TXT.
VALVE CLEARANCE ADJUSTMENT
Rather than tediously lining up the timing marks, you can reconnect the wiring plugs that you disconnected while removing the heat shield and rear cylinder cover, so that the starter motor will work. Flip the kill switch so the engine won't actually start, then blip the starter so that the cam lobe on the *opposite* end of the camshaft you're working on is at full lift. The cam profiles on the Magna/Sabre are not very radical, so you have a fair bit of leeway as to where this occurs. Now, on the end of the camshaft you're working on, install the special tool. Both ends of the camshaft are now being pressed up against the camshaft holders, so the camshaft won't be tilted. The long flat feeler gauges are flexible enough to be easily bent to ensure there is no binding when testing the clearance. ("Bent" doesn't mean putting a sharp crease in them to make an angle, just pressing down a little to curve it so that it goes straight in between the adjusting screw and valve.) Use two gauges at once, one under each side of the follower. When the clearance is correct, the gauge should be moveable with a slight drag, whereas the next size up should not go in at all, unless you really force it, in which case you're fighting against the valve spring. Even after carefully setting the valve clearance, there may still be a little audible ticking, especially before the engine fully warms up.
As related on Robyn Landers's web site, some later engines had the cam bearings line bored. These can be identified by half-circle plugs in the heads where the boring tool went in. Clearances on these engines are tighter so supposedly you don't need the special tool to adjust valve clearances.
You can check out valve noise with an automotive stethoscope, or the poor man's substitute: a long screwdriver held with the tip pressed into the hex socket in the head of the rocker shaft and the other end pressed against your ear.
